Deadlift, Squat, Bent over row

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Glenn Wright on February 11, 2010 at 12:12pm

I don't think you "flex the hips by abdominal muscles" in any of these lifts. Flexing the hips is done as a result of the eccentric contraction by the hip extensors resisting the force of gravity of the load. As a result, the abdominal muscles don't "flatten out the lumbar spine" the way you mention. The spine should be kept in the neutral position ("natural curve") statically during these lifts in my opinion.

Retracting the shoulders helps to keep the thoracic spine in its "natural curve" since this resists the protraction taking place as a result of the load being held in the hands (deadlift, bent over row).

It would be great if we can have discussions like this more often with other UWL students, faculty sharing knowledge and experience. With that said, what do others think about Drew's question.

Permalink Reply by Joshua on February 11, 2010 at 2:10pm

I am going to have to agree in that keeping the back flat (maintaining its natural curvatures) should be of first and foremost importance in these such lifts. Not only does it allow for proper recruitment and loading of the major muscle groups (be it any of the 3 lifts) but it also loads the spine and pelvis in a safe and effective means to transfer force from the external load to the body system (back, hips, legs).

I also agree with Glenn in that with a deadlift the hamstring/glutes and and hip extensors act much more as a breaking force (eccentric) as the weight is brought back to the ground. In the back squat the quads/hip flexors and abdominals ("core" in general) come into play more significantly due to bar position being on the back (more posterior then a deadlift which is in front of the body.

Bottom line as I see it, in the a big picture (not one joint) you have a compressive force to work against with a back squat vs a pulling (traction??) force with a deadlift which changes the way the leverage system works on the body and the recruitment/stability needed to perform the lift. (Maybe thats why I can deadlift 100lbs more than a squat........?????)

As for bent rows, I find them helpful simply because they help balance out all the work most athletes get with upper body pushing movements already.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Lee on February 11, 2010 at 2:49pm

When it comes to flexing the hips to flatten the back out the coach I am hearing this from believes that back extension is bad because it loads the neural arch too much and may lead to injury. Which makes sense in extreme extension but not extension used in training. I think that is where he is coming from at least. Make sense?

Permalink Reply by Glenn Wright on February 18, 2010 at 11:51am

Back extension here I assume is "trunk extension" and the opposite of that is trunk flexion. If you do trunk flexion in any of these exercises, injury will definitely follow. How does this coach propose to do any of these lifts without trunk (back) extension.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Lee on February 18, 2010 at 12:00pm

By keeping the abs turned on and relaxing the back. He believes the motor pattern which we were all taught of chest up and hips back is incorrect. Personally I believe with any of these lifts that if the load is heavy enough your abs will be firing in order to stabilize. I don't see the need to overemphasis keeping your abs turned on.

Another perspective which I have heard is that injury from say deadlifting probably would not come from having a flexed back but being flexed and going automatically into extension. This makes sense, but why not just keep it neutral and avoid hyperflexion and hyperextension.