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How should we view weightlifting's role in strength & conditioning programs?

In the "strength & conditioning program" context,is there a difference between Training weightlifters knowing that the byproduct of that will also result in a better athlete, and Using weightlifting to train athletes knowing the same outcome?

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Comment by Daniel on January 25, 2012 at 1:17pm

research I find in our industry is a bit sketchy, I try not to read valid journals i.e journals with a low influence factor the NSCA has an influence factor of less than 1, when a minimum rating of 3.5 is considered credible. So to be fair I stay away from those, other wise when quoting from them your arguments get quickly pulled up for being not valid.

I have a study on squat to jump study and its not great like John below stated, although not too sure on the jump to sprint speed one but again I will look into this!                   

Comment by Daniel on January 25, 2012 at 1:03pm
Sorry Eddy, my way with words sometimes gets ahead of me. I am passionate about what I do and believe in everything I do, I am also learning from everyone and everything, and never ever ever refuse to listen to any of my peers. So don't think that of me, so for my turn of phrase I do apologise.
Comment by Eddy Schumacher on January 25, 2012 at 12:48pm

I don't do other people's research for them. You can easily search the peer reviewed journals yourself for the research.  NSCA Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research would be a good place to start.  Sports Medicine journals have some, but are not usually performance oriented as much. The correlations from sqaut to jump, and from jump to sprint speed are pretty well established.  Not nonsense. But since you see it as such and want someone else to do your homework, I'm out.  Once anyone on ANY topic has labeled something as nonsense, that means they've discounted all future reason and argument.

 

Comment by Daniel on January 25, 2012 at 9:35am
At which point did I take ownership of a thread?

You answered one question Jesse, which I replied to, you failed to mention that bit, you have then replied with a non specific statement regarding nothing that we are talking about and you have done the same again, I am quite prepared to discuss sports specific training and weight lifting etc you seemingly are not.
Comment by Jesse Webber on January 25, 2012 at 9:13am

Daniel-

You didn't start this thread, so why are you taking ownership of it? 

then rather than answer the questions I pose, you turn it into a child like "look what you said affair"

I actually did answer one of your questions!  I quoted it and answered it.  I'll bow out of this one now.

Comment by Daniel on January 25, 2012 at 9:00am
In response to his jumping and landing Jesse, or can you not read that bit!
Also I am at work and don't have time to get involved in a debate. While the questions I am asking I can answer, I can also answer your questions.

I find it odd that you enter into a discussion, then rather than answer the questions I pose, you turn it into a child like "look what you said affair". If you are wanting a debate and can challenge my way of sports specific training then feel free to ask me questions, I will try and answer all. If you do have research then fine bring it out. I will post the research on squat to squat jump which I promised.
Comment by Jesse Webber on January 25, 2012 at 8:44am

Eddy, as John below has said, bring out your rsearch mate, I believe your actually talking nonsense.

This coming from the guy who has not "brought research", he has also been non-specific in his responses and has asked more questions than answered.

Comment by Daniel on January 25, 2012 at 8:24am
Just a quick response Jesse, my approach is my opinion based on my knowledge of human movement. My response to Eddy is about his squat jump reply nothing more.

As for your reply yes we are humans, and as a human I find myself rarely moving straight up and down from a 2 footed static base. For a quick example if a golfer needs training in type 1 spinal motion, I will train them with both left and right type 1 that's obvious!
And as for bent over rows etc, is that what happens in movement? In my opinion and experience I can better prepare the shoulder for challenges it will actually face, rather bending over into flexion and stopping the shoulder from its full range of movement.

Like I said Jesse, I will try multi directional strength movements that I feel have a better chance of effecting on field performance, and reduce the risk of injury.
Comment by Jesse Webber on January 25, 2012 at 7:11am

Nobody ever bends over and pull heavy weights to them in sport either (with the possible exception of rowing/crew).  However, training the posterior shoulder with a variety of rowing and reverse flye type exercises is important for shoulder stability and health.  It is pretty obvious that not everything we do needs to look like the sport.  As a strength coach, I view my job as providing a stronger, more powerful, stable, and mobile athlete who is less prone to injury.  On the other hand, if I try to make all of my exercises for a quarterback look like a throw or drop I will actually be working against his coach and adversely affecting technique.

I recently saw a piece of research on the FMS with golfers as the subjects.  Of all the tests they ran, the squat was positively correlated with performance.  Daniel, I'd be interested in your evidence based post because right now I am not getting what you are saying.

In sport you rarely recruit muscles in that pattern so why are you training it?

Because we are not programming robots that are only tasked with one movement pattern; we are training humans with basic movement patterns (squatting) that will only get overuse and imbalance if I only train them with the desired pattern.  In the above example, if I only train a throwing athlete in that unilateral pattern, without any consideration for muscle balance and stability they will most certainly develop an issue.  They may get a temporary improvement in performance at first, but that is not a healthy, balanced approach to S&C.

Comment by Daniel on January 25, 2012 at 2:25am

Eddy, as John below has said, bring out your rsearch mate, I believe your actually talking nonsense. When I get more time I will write something bigger and evidence based for you to mull ovr!

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